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[page 18] _DON SIMPSON_ 3177 W. Fifth St. Los Angeles, California 90005 About Tengwar: I agree with Mebane's suggestion that _25_ be used for regular "R" (as in "retrospect"), and _21_ for the "R-colored vowels" of "either" and "harm." In Bell's "Visible Speech" there were 3 glides, an _R_-glide and _Y_ and _W_ glides; the _R_-glide would be 21 and his regular _R_- symbol 25. (either=<either in unknown characters>, retrospect <retrospect in unknown characters>; it's all diagrammatic-- in "<unknown character>, "<unknown character>" means "point of tongue"; "/" means "vocalized"; and in the vowels "<unknown character>"is "high back" (the small "<unknown character>" is a "high front _vowel_ glide") while "<unknown character>" is a "low front" vowel: I recommend Bell's book). I disapprove of using 26&28 for "rd" and "ld". I even hesitate at 3 & 7, which I feel can be rendered by 1+11 and 5+15 respectively. Keep them for voiceless _R_ & _L_ unless a better suggestion is suggested. Brooks' suggestion of 24 for for "nk", I lothe @loath@ on similar grounds: "ng" in "sing" is _one_ _sound_, written with two letters because English has no letter for it "Nk" in "think" is _two sounds_ the sound of "ng" in "sing" _plus_ a "k" sound. The analogy "NK:N::NG:G" is false. I suggest we ignore 24. Brooks other suggestion-a tilde over 23 for the "ny" in "canyon"- is logical and harmonious, and I second it. You are right about my tehtar chart. I use seven tehtar. Five are those Tolkien uses. One is his "A" tehta inverted "for "a" in "sat"). One is for the "uh" sound - I have been using a dot under the letter, but I will probably be switching to a slanting mark like the "e" mark (/) only the slant will be opposite (\). All others on the chart are combinations for long sounds or diphthongs (English is chock-full of diphthongs). I don't tnink Brooks pronounces "set" and "sat" alike - "bear and "bar" is more likely. "Bare" rhymes with "air" for me, but "bear" is more a run-together "Bay-are." How do you pronounce "Beorn?" -/"bay-orn"@/-@. But "bear" for me is the same as "bare." I don't think that the over-following-_or_-under-preceeding @preceding@-letter placement for the tehtar is a complication (my using a dot under the following letter for "uh" was a complication-this removes it), but it _is_ un-necessary @unnecessary@. If I adopt it I shall invert the "o" and "u" curls. If I don't adopt it, it will be because, as you say, there may be confusion as to which line a tehta belongs to. About "Middle-Earth": I hear the Chinese call China the "Middle Kingdom" and various American and African tribes use similar terms. And why do we call China "Eastern" when it's closer to the west? Because England (Greenwich, specifically) is the middle of the Earth - to the English. I have devised a system of punctuation for Tengwar which is harmonious with the letter shapes and complete even to quasi-quotes. Dan Alderson has the only copy at present. However, you need not use the mode of Beleriand. For numerals, I suggest using the letters as in Greek or Hebrew, with 36 as a zero. This needs more thinking on.